Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. So what counts as verifiable evidence? 50 feet above the most. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Give today. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. I don't know if she still is. Let's look for other evidence. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. We're not in the woods. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Good morning guys. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Post your sightings and NH photos here! I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Phone number 1 800. I just want to tell you a story that I read. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. You don't know what's going on. Rick van de Poll: Yes. 44-H Links. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. You saw what you saw. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. Really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: Well. And they were using all the habitat. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. You're on the air. Part II. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. I can't. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Have it reported down in the Keene area. He says when youve got a mountain lion in town, its kinda obvious. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. And you know all that. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Patrick Tate: Okay. Today on the exchange we discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. The report came in from a conservation officer. Pelosi story here we go. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. Share. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . I would say that there's going to be the truth in here somewhere. And the cougar embodies that. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. There are corollaries in other states. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Seems reasonable! Tim Yeah. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. I mean it wasn't your idea. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. We had six copies printed out each. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. 1957. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. I mean they're a survivor. You can see two of them at Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness NH. I tracked cats and all the western states. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Do cougars live in New England? People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. Peter Biello: Hmm. So let's let's go to the phones. It's bigger but bigger and better world. By Eric Orff. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Peter Biello: We mentioned that the eastern cougar and the Western cougar are they were separate eastern cougar believed to be extinct. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. I think that you probably are. He said matter of fact I do. Mike you're on the air. Okay. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. So so it is possible in Maine to still to to to have one but you have to be sort of professional handler as it were. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. I found a second scat scent both to him. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. That's next time on one day. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. I actually been interviewed a couple of times by reporters and with all due respect for the media you know facts aren't always communicated correctly. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. That's too big for Bobcat. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. So now what's going on. 1,470 likes. It's you know I recognized their report and. We'll push great photos to the front page. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Well they are the same. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Right. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . They absolutely do. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'.